Hi Chris & all,
Project Leader Chris left a comment, on my previous thread about improving support for 'larger' BAS projects - which I described as being mainly about including DOC, DATA, HELP, IMG, CALL etc files - on the SmallBASIC community website. Chris said:
I can see how it would be useful to simply share zip files for larger projects, but I'm not keen to offer file sharing on this site.
I hear what you are saying about Github being a challenge. Git has a very large feature set, but you really only need to know a few basic concepts to get started.
There are plenty of advantages of using github:
- Designed for sharing code and collaborating on large projects.
- Individual code lines can become comment sections including email notifications
- History of changes readily available showing who changed what, when why...
- Ability to switch back to an earlier version to help track down bugs
If you are willing to give it a try, we could start by attempting to work on some large SmallBASIC project, maybe a game. A couple of years ago someone posted an adventure game written in one of the other BASICs, (might be have yabasic). It could be fun to port this to SB, but would be too much work for one person.
Whether it's zip-packages, or simply accommodating multiple 'raw' files, to allow for more-realistic example-projects (to have HELP, DATA, and other normal resource-files) ... as a community-site, focused on writing things with SmallBASIC, we are currrently unable to meet a minimal 'realistic' bar. We're trying to do things in a Forum Post, that are not part of forum-ware.
SmallBASIC suffers because of this situation. Or rather, the potential for a community of user-participants is left without the facilities to get beyond Step 1. We're stuck in a Week One condition, for lack of facilities appropriate to our area of activity.
Certainly, my advocacy has not been that we as BASIC-users need access to GitHub. 'What!?' It's a novel suggestion, and interesting in its own right, that folks come together, perhaps under the tutelage of Leader Chris, and become GitHub-skilled workers. It would be a thing of value ... but it's a way-different thing than what we came here for.
Version Control Systems have not been particularly stable. Today GitHub is the popular thing. Yesterday it was Subversion. The day before it was CVS ... and tomorrow cool developers are likely to be off in yet-another direction. GitHub and other software like it, is the province of Experts. The Elite. It's their game, and they play by the rules they like.
I am not opposed to learning GitHub, although that is not what I was asking for or about. It's a different subject. VERY different.
And if I am to tackle GitHub, if I gain functionality within that system, I would obviously be able to tackle the kinds of roles & involvement for which it is in fact intended ... which is not to write code for BASIC. After all, SmallBASIC has a built-in IDE, rhetorically because GitHub is not a normally-reasonable way to produce SB-projects.
No, if I go to GitHub it will be eg with an eye toward participating in the development of SmallBASIC itself, or for starters to study the inner workings of this language-program. Likewise, I have interests in Linux and a number of other development-areas, which are organized on GitHub. People have told me, "You gotta git on Git".
Yeah Chris, if your response is an offer to help me get a commercial semi-tractor highway rig (GitHub), to haul my picnic-lunch to the beach for an afternoon in the SmallBASIC sunshine ... well, the impulse & opportunity is clearly going to be to jump behind the wheel of that rig and use it for the kinds of heavy-duty stuff for which it was intended.
If that's the Deal, it's a totally different game than what I was suggesting, but it's not uninteresting.
I think I understand, that the Developer of a BASIC - or any other - project is busy "developing", and that tending to the work-load of a Community website for users of the product is a large burden, load, and distraction. It would be, it general is, more appropriate that another person or team grapple with and slave along for the website, and leave the Dev-people mainly to their dev-work.
[Let me say to others following these threads, that C and C++ are not challenging languages, and that facilities like GitHub actually make it easier to grapple with these 'serious' languages - that's part of their Design-spec. The meta-junk associated with such Enterprise Languages is stuff that one has to become familiar with, to become competent & useful within the 'Industry', but the code itself for C/++ or whatever, is not a particularly big deal. Any of you who understand & apply programming-concepts & techniques in BASIC, can apply what you know in C-code as well.
Anyone who joins-in with a SB-on-GitHub initiative, is "enabling" herself to go beyond BASIC. Yet, even for Pros, BASIC will remain an excellent RAD tool.]
I have never had much interest in Games, and RPG or Arcade-stuff least of all. 'Games' provided an important sustaining-interest for BASIC, during its darkest Dark Ages ... a very few such projects did hit the software/programming El Dorado Motherlode ... but vast collections of this stuff belongs right where it is, in cold-storage.
Salvaging some old game could be quite tough, but there will be plenty of examples & suggestions we could discuss & compare, upon which to base a suitable learning-grade community effort on GitHub.
... Not what I was talking about ... but could be cool & very cool.